Coming from a family of academicians, a chemical engineer chucks up a lucrative job and a cushy life style not once, but twice to follow his passion-film making. Sounds like a plot from one of his films? Indeed Nagesh Kukunoor did just that! Today Kukunoor is not only recognized as a film maker of stellar capabilities globally, he continues to think out of the box and make films that supposedly don’t work according to conventional wisdom, but go on to be box office hits.
In an exclusive interview with Kavita Chhibber, the writer and director of the two big hits of 2006 Iqbal and Dor, talks about film making, and why he will not allow himself to be put in a slot.
So you have a brother who is a physician, a sister who is a double graduate and you are a chemical engineer. Where did film making come into the picture?
My father is an avid movie watcher and a great singer and Kishore Kumar fan. I remember that dad was totally into Hollywood movies and would cycle 20 km away to this theater that showed Hollywood films and I grew up hearing about films like Rebel without a cause and so on. What he watched we imbibed and whenever dad got his paycheck the first thing we did ritualistically was to buy one book and he would buy one LP or EP.
From the 5th grade till the 10th grade I distinctly remember enacting out whatever I remembered from a film complete with dialogues, sound effects, frame by frame before the class in this free period that we had. When I went to college, in those 4 years of studying chemical engineering, I also averaged about 5 films per week. We had just got a VCR and video parlors had also started booming in the early 80s. There were times I would start at 10 p.m. and finish my last film at 4 or 5 a.m. in the morning watching 3-4 films back to back.
The Telugu film industry had become very big in Hyderabad when I was growing up. Earlier all the south Indian films were made in Madras which was the main headquarters but when N.T.Ramarao became the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh, he moved the Telugu film industry to Hyderabad and it became a huge success as more and more film makers came into their own after remaining under the shadow of the Tamil film producers.
I however come from the Telugu Naidu community which speaks Hyderabadi and so the influences on me were predominantly from Hindi films.
I was very much an armchair director. One of the things I would do after downing a few beers would be to drive my friends nuts about how such and such film was badly made and should have made this or that way. I think one of the key moments in my life was when I came out of the theater after having watched Raiders of the lost Ark. My dad hated that film and I thought that was the greatest film to be ever made, and said to myself..if such magic can be created on screen then I want to be a part of it.
That first defining moment led to borrowing one of those bulky VHS video cameras that we had in the 80s from an affluent friend and my cousin and I co scripted this really horrible murder mystery in which I acted as well. We shot it for a day and we got halfway through when the routine power outage happened-with the light went my nerve and enthusiasm. I did look at the footage later and I was so embarrassed that I erased it-something I regret to this day. I remember every shot as vividly today and how the opening sequence was planned,. It was hilarious!
So there were those times but I really never had the nerve to do anything about it.
Then you came to the States to study at Georgia Tech. How did you pursue the film dream?
By watching a lot of films! I have every single ticket stub from every film I saw in the US since 1988. Georgia tech was really an engineering school in the 80s. There wasn’t any film related department. I took a few courses and a group of us studied under this script writer who had written scripts earlier: so we’d bring 4-5 pages of written material every time we met. That is how I learnt” script writing”! My first script was called Venom. It was quite terrible because I didn’t heed the advice that is given to all budding script writers and that is to write about things you know. Instead I wrote a fictional thriller which didn’t work.
In the 2-3 years that I did courses and workshops I learnt that I loved being on the set, I could recognize pieces of equipment and that I had the ability to both act and simultaneously direct the scene I was enacting in my mind. So it became easier to act and direct at the same time. But the one thing that one NEVER learns in film school is that real life is very different and you are working in an unpredictable environment where you have to take decisions on the fly that are not part of your meticulously written script. It is tough for a control freak like me to come to terms with that aspect! In a class room in a controlled environment things work flawlessly.
I read in a blog you wrote many years ago that you were doing very well professionally but were becoming more and more unhappy; and so you chucked your job went back to Hyderabad, realized you didn’t have enough money, came back , made the money and then went back. How crazy is that? And what did mom and dad say?
I think if I can take any bragging rights it was when I chucked my job a second time. It’s true that I came back after doing the math and realized I needed more money to make my film. But what was ironic was that I landed my dream job. It meant a lot of money, travel all over the world and thousands in stock options. To give all that up and go back required a lot of nerve, but I had to gather whatever knowledge I had, and money I had and give it a shot before I lost the courage to do it.
Mom and dad were taken aback but soon they realized I was serious and then they also felt okay let him get it out of his system. Also I first told them about my intention in 1994 and it took 2 years to finally make Hyderabad Blues, so they had gotten used to the idea. Once they realized I was serious they were very supportive. I shot the film in their house and nothing was done without their help. Dad became the production manager; mom cooked for all of us-it was amazing.
Of course I was petrified and I would lie alone at night wondering if I was doing the right thing. But I have always believed in being tunnel visioned about whatever I do. I feel that multitasking is doing two things poorly, and to this day that is how I work and live. I have never had a plan B if things didn’t work out. I just decided I would find a way around the obstacle and continue doing what I was doing. I had not confided in anyone, so there was no one to share my fears with. But my father taught me one thing-once you make your decision then have the balls to stand by it.
Interestingly when I did make Hyderabad Blues, I followed that lesson of writing about things I knew so the movie is based on experiences I had had and others whom I knew had had.
You made Bollywood Calling ad Teen Deewarein after that. Bollywood Calling was an out and out comedy spoofing the Bombay film industry and Teen Deewarein a dark film about three criminals awaiting death and a journalist in a dysfunctional marriage walking into their lives. Naseeruddin Shah was dazzling in all his wicked charm.
I have always had a paranoid fear of being put in a slot. Before the sun sets I want to make at least one film in every genre. Teen Deewarein was my message to the audience and producers that I am not just a director who makes light comedic movies.
A lot of the incidents that happened in Bollywood calling happened to me in my journey as a film maker. The scene where the American actor Pat comes to the studio at 9 a.m. sharp and no one shows up till 11 am happened to me.
Bollywood Calling also highlighted the fact that I couldn’t control everything and decisions had to be made quickly. I prefer to stick to the script very tightly and don’t like to make changes or allow others to make changes, because one sentence can be spoken in 10 different ways and each way can change the entire outcome of the scene or the following line. But here was the scene where I had been working with this guy who is the film producer in the movie for over two days and he was so over the top each time, not really delivering what I needed from him. So I fired him. I didn’t know what to do when suddenly in the shower it hit me and I quickly wrote a scene in which the superstar Manu Kapoor gets mad at the producer and fires him, and Om Puri becomes the director.
What can I say about Naseer. I didn’t deviate from the script but what Naseer does is bring his brilliance with him when he believes in a role as he did in the role of Ishaan. I wanted Naseer to give to the character that wicked charm he possesses in real life and it became the core of that character. It was at the editing table that I realized how outstanding he was and how he had with subtle nuances added so much to the performance.
They say sequels are never as good as the original and yet you went and made Hyderabad Blues 2.
I have always wanted to believe in making films according to my own sensibilities. There was a year long gap before Bollywood Calling and Teen Deewarein were released because they ran out of money and while I was writing more material it was a very uncertain period for me. In that time I started thinking of what Varun and Ashwini would be doing six years later. I was told that based on conventional wisdom sequels don’t do well at the box office and I responded that there has never been a true sequel made in Hindi cinema and this was really the first one.
I have never talked about this much, but while I was waiting to see the fate of my two films, I just wanted to go back to where I was when I made Hyderabad Blues. I wanted to prove a point to myself, and so I took all the money I had earned till then and poured it into HB 2 but they were right-it didn’t work. What I want to point out here, is that it doesn’t matter if the movie didn’t work, I just wanted to reassure myself that I will work according to my sensibilities and on my terms.
When I made Iqbal, I was told a film on cricket will flop, when it became a hit and I made Dor I was again told a story about two women meant film suicide after Iqbal because again conventionally, women oriented films normally don’t do well at the box office. Then Dor became a hit.
There is a story involved with Iqbal, the legendary film maker Hrishikesh Mukherjee and you.
I have always been a huge fan of Hrishikesh Mukherjee and Kishore Kumar and you will see their touch in a nuance or a song, or a reference in each one of my films. I had wanted to meet him for the longest time but didn’t know how to go about it when out of the blue Juhi Chawla told me that Hrishikesh Mukherjee talked about me a lot and had wanted to meet me. She set up the first meeting for me and since then I became one of the lucky few who had access to him any time of the day. I used to visit him and spent many hours chatting with him. Every time I finished a film I wanted to show it to him. He saw Iqbal at a time when he was very sick, his kidneys had failed. But he liked it enough to see Iqbal five times in a row and the next day the nurse called me to say that the movie put him in such a good mood that he was more receptive to dialysis and his medical treatment. Hs impact in my life also made me realize that just like he reacted to Iqbal I reacted to good cinema the same way each time. I would come out of the hall in a euphoric state and would play it out in my mind. I couldn’t just forget it and walk away.
Several film directors tell me that they have learnt what they learnt about film making at the editing table. Also how long do you take to write your scripts. You seem to have quite a few films in the pipeline.
Well for me a lot of my film making lessons happened at the writing stage and then on the sets, where every decision planned or improvised at the last minute can change the entire outcome of the film.
All I saw at the editing table was how the film came together. I think like in writing, film making is very intuitive. I think of my script as a bible. I do not change anything. I also follow the American structure very closely and when I break it I know why I’m doing so. I also do not write scenes out of context; I never say oh let me write that scene first and I will come back to this one later. It’s both my blessing and my curse. I have broken the rule with mixed results. I give myself 30 days to write a script. If I can’t finish the first draft and feel good about it in 30 days I shelve it. I might or might not come back to it years later.
Iqbal was written in 6 days, Hyderabd Blues in 7, Dor in 8-9 days just to give you an example.
What stands out in all your films is that they are all different from each other and have either a happy ending or a glimmer of redemption and hope and a good vibe in the end.
I believe in happy endings. I haven’t changed that stance since I entered the industry. I don’t know if I will change in subsequent films but I want that at the end of the 2 hours you must leave with a good vibe or euphoria that people felt when they saw Iqbal for instance. I had people come up to me and tell me that they got a fresh lease on life when they saw Iqbal. While I don’t want the mantle if it shackles my film making sensibilities I can just never leave a script in an unhappy frame if you will.
The women in your films are strong women, Is that due to being surrounded by strong women or just something you understood along the way? Or is it not such a big deal?
What really amuses me is that when we talk about a woman’s strength we make it sound like a novelty while a man’s strength is taken in a very matter of fact way. The truth is that there are weak and strong women just as there are weak and strong men. So much has gone into projecting a woman as an inferior second sex in every corner of the world that often when they try to show strong women on screen they become the slogan shouting, larger than life caricatures who talk loudly about injustice and how they wont let anyone get away with it. I understand that the film makers are catering to the lowest common denominator which includes a huge section of society where the women truly are second class citizens but I think for me the strength in a woman is as much as fact of life as strength in a man.
In my films I choose to make the woman strong in the hope that it will become a non issue. Personally I have enjoyed seeing the strength of a woman because it comes with a tremendous amount of vulnerability.
You came into some hot water with Dor and Iqbal. A well known journalist actually congratulated you on Dor then accused you of showcasing the Muslim family in Iqbal and the Muslim woman Zeenat in Dor in a much better light and doing a disservice to the Hindus showing the Hindu family exploiting their young widowed daughter in law for their ends.
That is a big surprise. I guess I should thank her for letting me know I had an agenda while making these films. Maybe I should now take only Muslim heroes and heroines for my films. Seriously, this kind of racial divisiveness is very disheartening and I didn’t expect it from her since she did text me right away telling me how much she liked the film.
The story is based on a true story about a Muslim woman who goes in search of the Hindu woman and I kept the original theme.
I also think it’s pathetic to talk about making Iqbal a Muslim cricketer when we have 4-5 stellar Muslim cricketers in the Indian cricket team shedding their sweat for the country.
All I can say to such people it-get a life, enjoy the film for what it is, feel good and go home to your families. I don’t think anyone gives a rat’s ass for a non existent agenda-I certainly don’t.
You were for a long time not comfortable with being part of Bollywood and stayed away, but it seems that you are much more comfortable now and have been going to the Bollywood dos.
I made a very conscious effort after Hyderabad Blues 2 to make my films in India. When a foreigner makes a comment on India or Indians we bristle and say-what do you know about India-you don’t even live here? I love having a global audience but the hand that feeds me is India and I have realized that now that I’m part of Bollywood, any changes and suggestions that I make are much better received as opposed to being told- hey buddy you make English films outside the purview of Bollywood what would you know?. Of course I still make the kind of films I like to make.
Do you think you came in at the right time? That Bollywood is ready for change?
I don’t buy this concept of right time. It’s silly when people say oh aap ne to ji yeh naya trend shuru kiya(you started a new trend) when a film that isn’t like their usual products does well. Or you came at the right time. You have a flop it’s a bad time-you have a hit on your hands, it becomes the new trend, the right time.
I have been making the kind of films I wanted to make since 1997. There really hasn’t been any hugely drastic change in the film industry-its very miniscule though I see that some film makers have started making films without songs, or you have an odd small budget film emerge and do well. But on the whole it’s the usual song and dance and melodrama that Bollywood knows best that is produced.
One big thing that has happened is that there is a lot of money available for film makers and there aren’t that many of them. It gives me hope that this will result in opportunities for many to make good films, and something new and innovative may come out of it.
What have you personally taken away from Iqbal and Dor?
When Meera defies the family and runs to Zeenat to give her the paper that will give freedom to her husband and then decides to leave with Zeenat; when Iqbal proves that anything is possible, and when I watch my three characters, the young suppressed widow, the Muslim wife looking for hope in a hopeless situation and the wily behrupia who chooses to be honest for once, dancing to Kajra re on the hot sand dunes, it makes me believe that even in the worst places, even in the worst situations in life, you can find hope, and joy.
I have always viewed myself as an underdog. In the deaf and mute Iqbal who fulfils his dream to play for the national cricket team, I saw a lot of myself. The success of Dor and Iqbal renewed my faith and gave me hope that I can continue to believe in supporting things, and making films that supposedly don’t work – because if you believe in it nothing is impossible.