Integrity and humility are the key ingredients to lasting success.”
He says he is an alumnus of comedian par excellence Jaspal Bhatti’s Nonsense Club, but Jasvir Gill is the one who has laughed his way to the bank. She has a laughter that would warm the cockles of your heart and a 1000 watt smile, but what one kept hearing about the husband wife team were not stories of their stupendous success with Virsa, their software compliance company that changed the face of corporate America and was acquired for megabucks by SAP but how humble, helpful and grounded they were.
In an exclusive interview with Kavita Chhibber, the couple, yet another success story to come out of Silicon Valley talk about their roots, and why the American dream is within anyone’s grasp.
Jasvir Gill
So what were the early years like?
Jasvir: My father had moved from Pakistan where they were very well off during partition. He was very young and there was a cholera epidemic at that time. My grand father was on his death bed and said that his last wish was that my father received a good education. While my father went on to become a teacher he made sure that all of us understood the value of education and discipline. We didn’t have a television in our house but he always made sure we had plenty of books to read.
1984 changed things even though I lived and went to college in Punjab. My brother who was in Khalsa college had been picked up by the police and for two days we had no idea where he was. It was a nightmare for us. Also, for a software specialist Chandigarh was not the place to be, so I decided to leave India and came to the USA in 1985.
Kaval: We are three sisters and a memory that really stands out in my mind is that when my youngest sister was born people behaved like there was a death in the family, just because it was a girl. But my father would always say to us-you are way beyond boys and whatever boys can do you can do better. As a result we never felt inferior and I promised myself that I will never let my father’s confidence in me down. Even though he was in Government service he made it a point to send us to the best private school in the city. Unfortunately my father passed away when I was in 8th grade. Mom had got married to him as a young girl just out of high school. He was 9-10 years older than her and she had been very pampered. Now suddenly at 31 she, a housewife who had lived such a protected life had to stand on her own feet and take care of three daughters.
My maternal grandfather was very offended when someone suggested she go to work. He said he could feed his daughter and her kids, but it was my dad’s friend who said, what will she do at home all day? Its not the question about money, she has to get out and about.
My mom got a job in the same department where my father worked and I think that was the best thing that could have happened to her. It was a clerical job and we had little money, but we were so happy and close knit. We still went to the same private school. Our friends would come home and see us do everything ourselves because we could not afford domestic help. We lived in a small house allotted by the Government but we never felt inferior to anyone, nor did any one make us feel that way.
My mom also had this sweet, naive dream that some day she would win the lottery and we will never have money problems. She would also tell us-your father was a good man and good things will happen to us. Make sure you do not do anything dishonorable because God is watching you and you will pay the price for any thing you do that is not right.
I was in Bombay so 1984 really didn’t impact us that much but when you traveled outside you saw how things had changed. Until then I had never ever felt fear but the aftermath showed me how terribly debilitating and powerful fear is. I finished my education and became a chartered accountant and after marriage came to California
What was the first impression of America?
Jasvir: It was very pleasant actually. I came straight to California on a project. I was working for a company that used to build defense related software and I was well taken care of. There were plenty of Indians around and the CEO Raj Dutt was also Indian. I saw in the next few years that Indians were still trying to establish themselves and their credibility in the US. The corporate world was aware of some academic institutions like the IIT but not too many others, and was hesitant in hiring graduates from other universities in India. Of course being in the Hi-tech industry things were different for me but the one challenge all of us faced was to establish how good we were at our work over and over again.
Kaval: Well when I was growing up, USA was perceived as the big bully and the land of drugs, hippies and decadent culture so I really didn’t want to go to the US. But I have to confess that when I got out of the airport I absolutely fell in love with America. I couldn’t get over the fact that our building had a Jacuzzi and a spa and I was so thrilled that I told Jasvir who was thinking of going back after finishing his project to tell them he loved this place and wanted to stay back!
I didn’t have a work permit but we lived in Culver city which had a lot of retired folks and I made friends with many of them and then took my CPA exams and started working. It was when we moved to Northern California the company that Jasvir was working for was bought out by IBM, and he was laid off. Indians always look for job security over trying their hand at business, and while it was a big blow, Jasvir said well if there is no security in job security let me try my hand at business!
So that laying off became the major turning point in your life with the creation of VIRSA. It turned out to be a major success story.
Jasvir: We started originally as a consulting company where the focus was always compliance controls and I had presumed that unlike in India, US companies would have very good controls and that everything was above board. I was very shocked to see during my days as a consultant how weak and vulnerable a lot of the companies were. We would find a lot of irregularities but it was long hours of manual work and a nightmare to find fraud. It was like finding a needle in a haystack because there are thousands of users, millions of transactions. But I found some very interesting cases-in one company there was a case of a 7 digit fraud. This employee was creating fictitious employees and sending checks to her own bank account. When she was caught and asked to leave she had the audacity to write one last check to herself even then. That is how daring people had become. We found so many manipulations where people posted revenues when the sales really didn’t happen.
It was at that time that I thought of building software that would automatically scan the entire company applications and be able to find potential red flags.
Kaval: I was with Jasvir from the beginning. I was the one who set the company up, I did his billing, the account table and handled all the non technical aspects of it. Jasvir was traveling a lot and I felt very sorry for him. There were days he would come home Friday night, stay Saturday and go back Sunday afternoon.
When you start your own company what are the challenges? I did read there were other companies that were doing the same thing but Virsa just exploded on the horizon and beat out the competition.
Jasvir: I think the biggest challenge is to create a product after really identifying the customer pain. Unless you pinpoint what your customer really needs the scope for success is very little. We were luckily already in that space and found that the problem we saw before us was huge and customers will be willing to pay for it. We were already experts on the ERP systems and so were able to build something really robust and scaleable. In 2003 we did 3 million worth of business and by 2006 when SAP acquired us we had already done 100 million dollars worth of business. Many times companies start with a good idea but after they acquire a few customers they struggle with issues of scalability and that is where we succeeded.
Kaval: When we were doing things we never realized it but today when we look back I know that we never said oh this is much more work than we thought. It was never your job or my job-when something needed to be done we just did it. My finance background made it easy to handle the financial aspect but then came the legal issues where you had to write contracts, and so a lot of time was spent talking to lawyers, reading up and educating yourself. There are many people who are willing to help you if you just ask, but you have to become pretty innovative and resourceful quickly!
SAP acquisition must have changed the way things were.
Jasvir: Well at that time I thought that by SAP acquiring us we will have a big muscle power and will be able to create and innovate faster. For sometime I had that freedom but SAP is a very large company and it is a real challenge to innovate because of its political structure. So if you need 10 resources, it may take months to get that approved and by then you may no longer need it as technology changes so fast. I think European companies simply have a different working style. The Germans especially are very systematic, methodical and disciplined. They have to have a complete plan in front of them. In America if we have an intuition that an idea will fructify into something viable we quickly jump on it, get market validation and cut corners to move ahead because speed is really key these days when it comes to executing things. I think Google and Facebook would have never happened if they had followed German engineering!
What was the impact of TiE (the Indus entrepreneurs) in your lives?
Jasvir: We were already on our way with Virsa but I have always believed that no matter how well you are doing there is always scope for improvement. So we got involved in TiE pretty late. We met with Kanwal Rekhi and Raj Jaswa and I still remember the feedback they gave us very clearly to this day. I asked Kanwal what would be the one single most important advice he could give us and he said when companies get VC funding they start spending so fast, not realizing that VCs like to give large chunks of money to get a bigger chunk of your company in return. It is best to maintain the same kind of discipline that you had before you got the funding, and try to maintain productivity by looking at the revenue per person. We were already doing that subconsciously and now we started doing that more consciously.
Raj Jaswa also gave us some sound advice when I asked him how does one work with a Board successfully? Raj said you have to be careful about giving too much leeway to a board, as most Vcs will throw in a few millions which are like peanuts for them and consider the investment a gamble. But it is your company and the success or failure affects you directly. Just because they are on the board doesn’t mean they know what is best for your company. That should always be your job. So don’t follow advice blindly from a board –they don’t always know what is best.
Kaval; I remember the two hours my husband and I spent with Kanwal Rekhi and Raj Jaswa being as the two most valuable and enlightening hours of our business life. They made us look at things in a very pragmatic manner, evaluated where we were, validated some of the things we were doing and got us thinking about some of the things we were debating about. Those two hours made a deep impact and Jasvir and I felt we had to go out and help others achieve the same success that we had as a result of the advice we received, and so we are quite involved with TiE.
How have you kept yourself from micromanaging and not letting success go to your head?
Jasvir: That is a very good question. It is really important to stay humble and keep your ego in check otherwise it will stop you from hiring people who may be better than you and really good for your company. Then every time you will meet someone smarter than you, you will start feeling threatened. To make a company thrive, you have to hire a team of A plus plus players, and you have to create an employee friendly environment. Every time we have hired someone I used to personally interview them and would talk to them about our core values, and the fact that every person can make a difference, every one’s feedback is very important. People have been given the freedom to come to me anytime at any stage of a project and share their feedback.
We always picked people who we felt were self confident and secure within themselves, and we also have a company culture where we love to give credit to others-every one in the company is very generous about it. But once you do that you really scale because your leadership gives back 100 percent in terms of loyalty and effort.
Kaval; When we started out we were very little. There were people who treated us like crap and there were some very big people who treated us with the utmost respect and the latter are the ones that I have great respect for to this day. I have never felt anyone was too big or too small. I have seen people from the highest places hit rock bottom, and people from the smallest places rise very high. I don’t think the money or the title you have has anything to do with you as a person. I always respect people who are generous and respectful of others and willing to help those in need.
The company that I had worked for as a CPA was a wonderful company. I loved that environment and told Jasvir I wanted a similar environment in our company where people look forward to coming to work every morning. That we make sure they can come to us with any problem and to create a culture where everyone cared about each other’s well being. As a result people care about us and the company has benefited as well.
Did anything change after 9/11 for you being of Sikh origin?
Jasvir: I think today many more Americans know who the Sikhs are thanks to the education provided by the community. I remember feeling uncomfortable initially and not going to work for a couple of days wondering how people would react to me but almost every American I knew was very concerned and protective about my well being. There was one isolated case one time when I was traveling back from work and someone misbehaved trying to get into the train yelling at me, but several others apologized on that man’s behalf and no one opened the door.
Kaval: I have never ever felt discriminated against either before or after 9/11. In fact I have always felt I got much more than my share of credit and appreciation. No one has ever looked down upon me because I was a woman or an ethnic minority. I just look at it this way, if someone discriminates against you, just ignore it and do your job well. There will be ten others who will appreciate you.
You have decided to take business to India. I keep hearing sob stories about the infrastructure in India, and how each state is an island into itself. You plan to make a base in Chandigarh. How are things there especially with the new government in power?
Jasvir: The challenge of infrastructure remains, and another major problem is the issue of identifying good talent and being able to retain it because people jump ship as soon as they are offered a few thousand more, and there are a lot of companies right now setting up offices in India. I think if someone can build an application to identifying real talent from the fake resumes they will be in big business.
And yet I love Punjab, its my home state and I’m so passionate about doing business in Chandigarh so I’m going to go ahead anyway. People take time to understand the value of investing in India but its worth the challenges.
I think the new government is quite serious about having Chandigrah on the world map. They are building the Chandigarh IT Park, where I have bought the land for our building. Two of the top IT govt. representatives were at the tiecon 2007 at my invitation to check things out here. I told them they have to convince the world about why doing business in Punjab is a viable proposition. India still has unbridled growth and is a young economy but it will stabilize in time.
Kaval: I think for me the most frustrating thing was that people would be very nice to your face and make promises and then fail to deliver. That really messed up my entire schedule. Here you are used to people telling you upfront what they can or cannot do in a particular time frame. So that was a learning curve. The government seems very willing to work with us, but I also realized that if you persist and people finally see what your work ethics is all about, they also start following suit.
You both work together. What is the secret of a successful business and marital partnership. Its not easy for husband and wife to work together.
Jasvir: We were very clear about our roles. Kaval handled finance operations and HR. My role was more geared towards engineering and innovation and while we were husband and wife at home, we treated each other as professionals at work. Kaval was never given any extra perks at work just because she was my wife. She would report to work like anyone else and answer questions like anyone else. I think on a personal level, partners must respect each other’s capability and give each other space to play their roles. Don’t constantly interfere, and treat her like the adult she is.
When you don’t respect your partner or maintain professionalism, your body language is easily picked. Its very easy to see when two people don’t get along.
Kaval: I think personally there are no hidden agendas when you work together, or any kind of ulterior motives. In the beginning you do work long hours and you have to keep your priorities straight. Because we were working together, I knew how much effort he was putting in and it gave me a lot of compassion for him. there was never this moment where either one of us said the other wasn’t doing enough. As the boys got older we started sharing things with them so they don’t feel left out and they knew that they came first.
You have two sons. How do you stop them from getting spoilt like many children or privilege are ? And how do you prioritize when you run your own business and the initial years are non stop hard work?
Jasvir: Well while my father was a disciplinarian and we had a father-son relationship, I’m more friendly with my kids. I think I have passed on the same sense of discipline to our sons. When we started we were very busy but we always played basketball together and called ourselves Team Gill. My younger son was only three and we decided that when he shoots no one will block him. He is in 9th grade now and you won’t believe how fondly he remembers those times.
Kaval: I think having seen us work hard from the beginning they appreciate what has gone into making a success of our venture. My older son is more laid back and content and feels truly grateful for what he has. The younger one is more competitive and wants to do even better than us. In fact we made our kids come and work in the office. My older son initially wanted to become a lawyer so we made him work on legal issues with the legal department. It meant he got to do the worst work that no else would do. He did and realized he wasn’t cut out for law. Then he decided to try his hand at a project in the business development department where the VP chewed him out telling him he did everything wrong after he presented his analysis and conclusion. He told me, “ Mom he made me feel like the stupidest person in the whole world!” He had to redo it again. But it also made him realize what the real world was going to be like and how fortunate he is.
Its very important for us that they not only become cognizant of how privileged they are but that they need to work hard and make the best of what they have and more importantly also give back. It was interesting that I asked my son to fly down for the weekend a few days ago and he refused because I didn’t give him a 2 week notice and the airfare went up from 40 bucks to 100 bucks one way. He said there was no way he was going to waste money, even though I offered to pay for the ticket! But I’m happy that he has that respect for money.
What is in the works?
Jasvir: Well we I have always enjoyed comedy and when I came to California I was separated from Jaspal Bhatti and my old fun group, so we created a team here and did a comedy show, called Khatiyan Meethiyaan on Geet Sangeet Radio which was a very popular radio program in California. I used to love doing parodies of famous songs. We were rated the number 1 show three years in a row. Now we plan to start a separate company focusing on entertainment, animation and comedies through SUFI, our incubator.
Kaval what message would you give to women from your own personal experience?
Kaval: It is not easy juggling careers and motherhood but I strongly feel that every woman must be able to stand on her own feet and if the need arises, put food on the table for herself and her kids. I saw my own mother struggle and come through with flying colors, and it taught me a very important lesson that whether women choose to work or not, they must have the ability to be self reliant. Her going out to work-and she was the kind who would be so overcome with grief that she would faint each time my father was mentioned-brought so much peace and happiness in our family.
Also children are a lot more resilient than you give them credit for. The other day I was having a mother-son talk with my older son and I said to him, I still feel so bad that I could not come for your 9th grade graduation ceremony. My son who is now at UC Irvine said,” Huh? You didn’t? I don’t even remember that!” And here I was feeling really guilty about it for years! I think children learn a lot and appreciate you even more when they see how hard you work, and see you give your best even though your best may not be perfect.
Above all its okay not to be 100 percent in 6 different things. If you can manage a 60 percent I think that is pretty good.