“The Common man has Always Respected PPP and my Position”
Asif Ali Zardari once told Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s former Press secretary and family friend Khalid Hasan, “I’m the most acquitted man in Pakistan”. Perhaps even Zardari, could not have imagined what a tough job it was going to be, to be the husband of the prodigal daughter.
The story goes that the two were introduced in an arranged matchmaking scenario and Asif Zardari wooed Benazir Bhutto with flowers, wearing a new suit daily until she said yes. Then he wore the traditional Pakistani Shalwar Kameez the next day. A surprised Benazir who had obviously been dazzled by the man who had a reputation of being quite the charmer, asked him why he literally switched gears, or should it be his daily wear- so fast? Zardari said to her-“this is the real me-get used to it.” (a story he acknowledges to be true and laughs that she herself wore those shalwar kameez all the time). He won her grudging respect with that candid confession and she in return found out in later years that she had won his unstinting loyalty when he was beaten up and incarcerated for close to a decade in Pakistani jails and asked by the ISI to cut a deal with them, dump her and go free, and he refused.
Today the man who had been cast aside as Mr. 10 percent and castigated repeatedly with charges of corruption, (charges that were not proved), has inherited the good will of the masses that adoringly welcomed his late wife back. He has also won the grudging respect of many, for the way he has conducted himself in the aftermath of his wife’s assassination.
If you were to do a google search on Asif Zardari, you will find plenty on him, his jail term and stories of the brutal beatings he got when in jail, the attack and charges, but one thing you will not find across the internet-a single complain, a single whine, a single self pitying interview from Zardari, and that gives you some insight of not just the grit, but the grace of the man. Benazir Bhutto and Asif Zardari may have their warts, their flaws like all of us, but what everyone talks about from a personal level, is their warmth, generosity and ability to forgive and move on through the worst of times with grace.
This exclusive interview was conducted on 9th January, barely 10 days after Benazir’s death, and in spite of a very hectic schedule Asif Zardari took the time out to talk to Kavita Chhibber about his late wife, the elections, his son Bilawal and why he feels it is important for Pakistan to move towards becoming a positive force in the South Asian sub continent, and that he feels India could be a strong ally.
It has been a very short while since your wife passed away and I saw Bilawal’s first solo press conference in London on 8th January. He was asked some very tough questions and I must say, I was very impressed by the way he conducted himself. There was no elder around him coaching or guiding him.
Thank you very much. I share the same sentiments. I’m very proud of him, considering that nobody has lost more than him. He managed to carry himself like his mother’s image. He of course is her son and brought up by her. In our world, everything you learn is when you are 5 years or less according to modern science. Yes, whatever lessons she taught him, he has learnt well.
Tell me more about the children. I have heard that they were very close to your wife and she wanted all three of them to become lawyers. I believe all of them are extremely bright and that Bilawal has made it to Oxford totally on his own merit.
Well, we were hoping to let them complete their education and youth without unnecessary attention. They have always been kept and looked after, like a mother would- totally in certain set circumstances. She’s (Benazir) been teaching them herself. She used to be a hands on mother. Even when she was Prime Minister, she would make sure that one lunch, one dinner she would definitely plan with the children and the children would be there: and then she would talk to them. In fact in this incarceration of hers, her going abroad, her being away from the country, the one silver lining I always thought and always think was that at least she got a chance to teach them herself. Now Dubai is very progressed but when they left(Pakistan), Dubai was not so progressive and you didn’t have very good teachers, so she taught them herself. She used to often tell me(laughs) that her blood pressure came from teaching the children, because she was a hard task master and she would keep high benchmarks for herself and for everybody else.
I have been interviewing many people across 5 countries, since Benazir passed away and what was a big surprise was that the younger generation, some of whom were either not born, or were toddlers when Benazir became Prime minister became the biggest supporters of your wife. I’m being told by many Pakistani journalists that they are the ones who turned out in the biggest numbers to welcome your wife and today they feel the intense despair and hopelessness.
I want to tell those young people who came out for her… in fact at all the events, all the reports that I’ve got, many of the people who came out on the streets were 12 year old, 13 year old and fourteen year old kids who basically came out and protested and for that the party has given us a new hope in Bilawal and then at the same time the philosophy of Shaheed Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto is larger in death that it was even in life. She was, as I said Benazir(without compare) when she was alive and Benazir when she is dead. We intend to embody her spirit, her philosophy, her hope and her wisdom to take the Party forward with the people of Pakistan.
I would like the young people of today who are tomorrow’s leaders to have hope, because hope is what nations live by. If you have calamities nations live through it if you have hope. If you have plague the nations can live through it. When hope dies, nations die and that is the hope is what we in the Peoples’ Party are trying to keep alive by giving Bilawal the future leadership and the thought so he can grow up and he can learn with all the burdens. Because he has been suffering with us; while his mother was suffering, while his father was suffering, so was he. Growth was taking place in the suffering, through all the suffering comes maturity, comes the strength that you need to galvanize nations and produce better leaders.
Do you think the elections will be held on time? Most people feel there was no need to have postponed them and that this is a ploy on the part of the government to try and let the sympathy wave cool down and also to find ways to destabilize the PPP. I was told that there were trumped up charges and arrests of close to 300,000 PPP workers many of whom were given open FIRs and others not being allowed to contest.
That shows their incompetence and their nervousness. Bibi (Benazir) used to call them “Siyasi Yateem-political orphans-unfortunately they have been running the country for the last 7-8 years and it is obvious from their handling of this situation and every situation, every opportunity they have wasted and every blow that they could give in destroying the nation, they have done.
Only the people of Pakistan who are so resilient, have managed to stay together, stay alive and stay hopeful and peaceful otherwise the so called governments of today have done everything in their power to absolutely break this nation. They have no ways of communicating with the people, they’ve never had a hand on the pulse of the people. They sit in long buildings and palatial lawns in Islamabad where the wind of the rest of Pakistan doesn’t reach and they take the decisions and make concepts and theories which are totally unbecoming.
Today we don’t have oil, gas, flour, water-we have nothing in spite of the fact that this was the period where the world’s attention was on Pakistan. For the last 10 years they’ve got nothing but aid, they got all sorts of respite as far as paying back the loans are concerned. The world was willing to give them everything and anything they wanted but instead of taking it and converting it into an opportunity, they’ve used all of Pakistan’s goodwill and foreign interest to strengthen their own tenure, their own governance which is of inexperienced people. They have no idea how countries and nations are run.
If you notice in the Indian subcontinent such tragedies have happened before and in that tragedy Rajiv(Gandhi) was appointed Prime Minister immediately just to make sure that the nation got its bearings. We in the People’s Party do not want to be given any government post because we have never accepted any deals of that kind but at least they could have come up with a national government of consensus. We need not have nominated any PPP person but we could have thought of some neutral people to run the nation and taken some advice from all the political forces across the board, not just the PPP but all the political forces across the board and taken some decisions in the light of their findings. But unfortunately they still think with their boots, they have no brains so one has to bear up and live through this and make sure that they get tired in the race and we keep our stamina till the end.
There is this intense feeling globally that Benazir Bhutto died because USA was not able to keep its end of the bargain and get Musharraf to give her adequate security and a level playing field. Many also say that for the last 50 years USA has backed the wrong horse in Pakistan.
I think the Americans need to have more research in today’s world and have more local input in their regional political strategies. I think the regional input is lacking and for the American think tanks and anywhere else in the world, it is very important that we live in the new world order because the old world order is over. In the last world order one saw millions and millions of people dying in the Second World War. There have been other tragedies since then and there have been other wars and there have been policies which were not properly thought of. You see it is very important to feel the thought through and we are hoping to influence the world in thinking about our region and South Asia and hopefully we intent to take India’s point of view and India’s help and have a positive role in tomorrow’s South Asian Politics.
PPP has chosen Makdoom Amin Fahim for Prime Minister if PPP wins. I hear that he is very well respected, but not charismatic enough.
We have taken a decision that all decisions will be by consensus taken by the CEC(central executive committee) on a majority basis. So everybody is bound by that including myself. Nobody can take decisions on their own because when she was there, she was a personality everybody had worked with for 30 years so till we earn our spurs we have to go with the consensus decision. All decisions(including about Fahim) till date have been with everybody included. There have been no dissenting notes in the party.
You have been hounded by the media for years, called Mr. Ten percent, and I hear there are some grumbles within the party at your choice of Co-Chairman. I have also heard that the common man is totally behind you. Do you see a positive change in the way people feel about you this time?
I couldn’t agree with you more. The common man is the one that matters and the common man has always respected Peoples’ Party’s position and my position. When I came out of prison they gave me love, they came out in thousands to receive me, to greet me, to be with me wherever I went when I was carrying her(Benazir’s) message and I’m sure today when I carry her yoke with me to win the people, I’m sure the people will give us the same respect, the same love and affection they have for her memory.
As for my detractors, I can only say may God forgive them for they know not, may God educate them and give them brains because that is one thing that is lacking in Pakistan-commonsense.
How do you manage to stay strong in tough times. I have done a thorough research on you and I hope there will be more opportunities to continue this conversation, but through all the allegations, the treatment in jail, I have not read a single interview where you have lashed out at people, or said something in self pity, or been unforgiving or hostile.
All I can tell you is that one has to learn and live from within oneself. Your growth takes place in the inner self. The inner self has to be as big as the situation is or as big as the idea is. So if the inner self is grown enough you are as large as the universe, the Universe is the limit and beyond. One should always think beyond one’s own self. The spirit is infinite. If you look at life in the infinite spirit of time, then you are less constrained by people who try to constrain you.
Finally how would you like the world to remember Benazir Bhutto?
I’d like the world to remember her divinity, her power of keeping the nation together, her intellect and her spirit to keep Pakistan going and democracy going.
Kavita Chhibber would like to acknowledge Rubab Saleem and Farhatullah Babar for graciously arranging this interview.